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Drill Baby Drill!

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Pagan
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Drill Baby Drill!

I thought we needed a new Forum on "Alternative Energy" and thought this would be a good subject to kick it off with Cheers Mate!

 

Drill, baby, drill
By Todd Woody - Grist | Apr 09, 09

 

It’s the archetypal Silicon Valley story: Unknown entrepreneur toils away on a Big Idea in an anonymous office park until discovered by one of the Valley’s legendary deep-pocketed investors.

Another boy wonder CEO hatching the next Twitter or Facebook? Not quite. Meet Bob Potter, 88. He started his hardware company when he was just 83 with technology that grew out of his work on the Manhattan Project (yes, that Manhattan Project) back in the 1940s at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.

It’s all about bits, not bytes. Bits as in drill bits. Potter Drilling is developing a deep-drilling technology to tap geothermal heat miles below the earth’s surface—heat that could be used to generate carbon-free electricity.

Conventional geothermal power plants draw upon underground aquifers of hot water relatively close to the surface to create steam that drives electricity-generating turbines. The problem is that underground water currently tapped for geothermal is found mainly in the western United States. But the technology Potter is developing could drill much deeper, meaning geothermal energy could be generated nationwide.

According to a 2006 MIT study, so-called Enhanced Geothermal Systems could potentially supply 2,500 times the country’s current energy consumption. That grabbed Google’s attention, and last August the Internet giant’s philanthropic arm agreed to invest $4 million in Potter Drilling as part of its green energy initiative.

The tech twist: Potter drills not with hard-as-diamonds bits but with water—extremely hot water. (More on that in a bit.) The goal is to radically cut the cost of EGS to spread the technology to regions that rely too much on coal for generating electricity but are not suited for solar, wind and other renewable energy generation.

“It is fun to see some old dreams come true,” says Potter standing in the company’s Redwood City lab-slash-workshop in a light-industrial park wedged in between Interstate 101 and the railroad tracks. He has just pulled into the parking lot after making the 1,200-mile drive up from his home in New Mexico (with a side trip to Fresno to visit his 95-year-old brother).

Tall and lean and partial to bolo ties, Potter looks as much a western rancher as a rocket scientist. He is in fact one of the fathers of EGS. Starting in the 1950s, Potter and colleagues at Los Alamos began investigating the potential of fracturing pockets of super-heated rocks located deep beneath earth’s surface. Their idea: Inject water in the fractured rock and pump the hot water to the surface to create steam to drive a turbine. The water is then re-circulated back underground in a closed loop.

But Potter soon encountered a major obstacle to making geothermal as common as coal: Drilling as deep as six miles below the earth’s surface is incredibly expensive, presenting a host of obstacles to overcome. Even conventional geothermal developers spend millions of dollars to just drill test wells. But EGS rigs must penetrate miles of hard rock that slows drilling to a crawl. And a broken drill bit 30,000 feet underground can force the abandonment of a $10 million well.

“Getting into the drilling was forced on us in a way because that was thing that really prevented hot fractured rocks from being viable,” says Potter.

When government funding of geothermal research dried up with the crash of oil prices in the early 1980s, Potter moved on to other endeavors. But in the late 1990s he returned to geothermal, and with MIT chemical engineering expert Jefferson Tester patented a drilling technology called hydrothermal spallation. Potter then persuaded his son Jared to start a company in 2004 to commercialize the technology and serve as its CEO.

The younger Potter holds a Ph.D. in geology from Stanford University and had already started two Silicon Valley geological-related companies. Potter Drilling limped along for a few years, unable to interest the Valley’s venture capitalists to fund basic R&D on something that seemed so, well, industrial and old economy.

Then Google came calling on a recommendation from Tester. “If Google hadn’t come along, the company would have died,” says Jared Potter, 56.

What sealed the Google deal was a demo of Potter Drilling’s technology like the one I’m about to see. We’re standing in front of a contraption that looks like a prop from the original “Star Trek.” Salad plate-sized analog gauges line either side of the seven-foot-tall U-shaped device. Suspended in the center is a silver container about the size of small beer keg connected to various tubes and valves.

A technician loads a 4 x 6-inch cylinder of solid Sierra white granite into the bottom of the container. Above the granite is the drill apparatus. It resembles a round garden hose nozzle with slotted openings at the end. We put on safety glasses and switches are flipped, buttons pushed. As chemical reactants begin to heat up the water supply, a battered, second-hand flat-screen monitor attached to the apparatus shows the temperature rising—200C, 400C, 600C. When it hits 800C (lead melts at 327C), the hot water is forced through nozzle. As the sound of the machinery intensifies, the jets of water begin to fracture the surface of the granite, dislodging tiny particles of the rock.

About two minutes later, the too-hot-to-handle chunk of granite is removed and now features a round, 3.5-inch-long, 1.25 inch-diameter bore hole through its middle.

By dispensing with breakable drill bits and other components that risk failing at great depths, the Potters hope to jump-start EGS by slashing both the cost and the time it takes to drill a well, which can account for more than half of a geothermal power plant’s price tag. That drilling risk has proven a deterrent to investors who don’t want to take the chance of literally pouring millions of dollars down a dry hole.

“We think we can cut the cost by 50 percent,” says Jared Potter. That has sparked interest from such leading EGS companies as Geodynamics of Australia.

But getting from the lab to the center of the earth, as it were, is another matter. Later this year, Potter Drilling will take the technology into the field at its first test site in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, where the company plans to drill a 1,000-foot hole. The further down they go, the greater the technological challenges, such as maintaining super high water temperatures and evacuating the displaced rock particles.

“Will the technology work? Maybe,” says Mark Taylor, a geothermal analyst at market research firm New Energy Finance. “I think it’s got great promise.”

To make the technology viable will take money. Geothermal has been something of a loser in the green energy stakes, with most private and governmental funding flowing to solar and wind companies. But the Obama administration has increased funding for geothermal, and Potter Drilling has applied for a U.S. Department of Energy grant. The company will soon need to raise venture funding to commercialize its technology.

Given that Bob Potter hashed out the initial calculations for hydrothermal spallation by hand—“I never did get into computers,” he says—any risk-taking venture capitalist’s money probably will go far.

*******************************************************************

 

Yes I know Fremen it's just another way of "Boiling Water", but it's clean and efficient. I say let's go for it!

 

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Mysandrist Fool
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Now, That's innovation!

Now, That's innovation! Clap Clap Clap

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Mysandrist Fool wrote:Now,

Mysandrist Fool wrote:
Now, That's innovation! Clap Clap Clap

They still have a long way to go yet, they have yet to drill a real hole. But then again I hope this works out, tapping into the earth's core would really be a HUGE! source of energy. Cool

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I don't see where this would

I don't see where this would really hurt anything, except the competition's bottom line! Tantrum, throwing a fit

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Mysandrist Fool wrote: I

Mysandrist Fool wrote:
I don't see where this would really hurt anything, except the competition's bottom line! Tantrum, throwing a fit

Thus, the dangerous element of innovation ala Edison vs Tesla.
I do like the idea, but keep in mind that this kind of thing may not generate the amount of energy we may think it should to be viable. I disagree with that kind of thinking. Energy use must go down to make any lasting change and would make any innovation more viable.
Well done, Pagan, this is a great follow-up to the previous threads. Cheers Mate!

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Fremen wrote:Mysandrist Fool

Fremen wrote:
Mysandrist Fool wrote:
I don't see where this would really hurt anything, except the competition's bottom line! Tantrum, throwing a fit

Thus, the dangerous element of innovation ala Edison vs Tesla.
I do like the idea, but keep in mind that this kind of thing may not generate the amount of energy we may think it should to be viable. I disagree with that kind of thinking. Energy use must go down to make any lasting change and would make any innovation more viable.
Well done, Pagan, this is a great follow-up to the previous threads. :cheers:

So we should all go back to the days of the horse and buggy, no lights burning in night and we all gotta forage for food eh Laughing out loud

Sorry efficient use of energy is a good thing, but restrictions only stifle civilization Eye-wink

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Pagan wrote: So we should

Pagan wrote:
So we should all go back to the days of the horse and buggy, no lights burning in night and we all gotta forage for food eh?

That's extreme - I never suggested that at all, silly Eye-wink
That being said, it sounds good to me!

Quote:
Sorry efficient use of energy is a good thing, but restrictions only stifle civilization.

Based on the extreme nature of your previous sentence, which I did not suggest in the first place, considering restrictions to curb energy use would follow. But I never suggested restriction, I merely suggested limiting use would make all energy innovations more viable. Howzit Brudda
Confession - I'm anti-civilisation, so I this argument really means naught to the Fremen. Smiling Civilisation was borne of domestication of the human mind and that is the fall from Grace in my opinion.

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Fremen wrote:Pagan wrote:So

Fremen wrote:
Pagan wrote:
So we should all go back to the days of the horse and buggy, no lights burning in night and we all gotta forage for food eh?

That's extreme - I never suggested that at all, silly Eye-wink
That being said, it sounds good to me!

Quote:
Sorry efficient use of energy is a good thing, but restrictions only stifle civilization.

Based on the extreme nature of your previous sentence, which I did not suggest in the first place, considering restrictions to curb energy use would follow. But I never suggested restriction, I merely suggested limiting use would make all energy innovations more viable. Howzit Brudda
Confession - I'm anti-civilisation, so I this argument really means naught to the Fremen. Smiling Civilisation was borne of domestication of the human mind and that is the fall from Grace in my opinion.

Come on, I like poking you to get a reaction Laughing out loud :s&m: Boxing

We need more More Cowbell

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You and that goddamned

You and that goddamned cowbell! I'm going to regret the day we put that smilie in there! Laughing out loud Laughing out loud Laughing out loud Laughing out loud Laughing out loud Laughing out loud

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HEY! Cowbell is the most

HEY! Cowbell is the most versatile smiley we have! You can never have enough More Cowbell

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Uh-Oh....... For me, you

Uh-Oh....... Evil

For me, you can NEVER have enough Farting Preacher!!!!!

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OOOHhhh... THAT guy! I miss

OOOHhhh... THAT guy! I miss him!
If only we could harness his 'geo-thermal' energy...

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Like this?

Like this? Laughing out loud Rolling on the floor laughing Laughing out loud Rolling on the floor laughing Laughing out loud Rolling on the floor laughing Brain Fart! More Cowbell

Hook 'em up, Dano!

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Great new conceptual

Great new conceptual approach now to see if it can be proven! More Cowbell

I find it interesting and amazing how it actually takes capital investment to cover the expense of research! I think I was criticized on that issue in the previous thread.
More Cowbell

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Hell, the could shove a pipe

Hell, the could shove a pipe up my ass and I could power the whole Green Bay area!

You KNOW it! Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing

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No doubt about that claim!

No doubt about that claim! But then you need to consider the detrimental effects flagellates (methane gas) has on the environment! Oh then there is also the whole in the ozone you would be blasting wide open!
Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
More Cowbell More Cowbell
Really love the cowbell!

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Not a problem. We just need

Not a problem. We just need to muffle it and harness it. This time of year, it would have to compete with those freshly plowed up farmlands..... Brain Fart!

I'm beginning to regret bringing that cowbell to the attention of this website..... Sheep

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Mysandrist Fool wrote:Not a

Mysandrist Fool wrote:
Not a problem. We just need to muffle it and harness it. This time of year, it would have to compete with those freshly plowed up farmlands..... Brain Fart!

I'm beginning to regret bringing that cowbell to the attention of this website..... :sheep:


Personally my favorites are still Brain Fart! and Twilight Zone

But More Cowbell still rocks! Laughing out loud

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Back on topic..... I can't

Back on topic.....

I can't remember the acronym but I would like to see the energy produced compared to energy used rating. I just wonder how efficient it is to heat enough water to 800c (1472f) to drill "miles below the earth's surface". That being said if it proves efficient it sounds like a good idea!

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I agree. We already drill

I agree. We already drill and the product would be nowhere as good as this. This is a renewable product. We just need to get the water down there.....

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Is there a downside to this

Is there a downside to this new approach to geothermal energy? Perhaps an eventual cooling of the earth core or man induced fracturing of the crust that would potentially result in seismic activity? Just wondering if potential side effects have been considered? Like anything man does there are trade offs in the cause-effect relationship. Eye-wink

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Y'know. Those are good

Y'know. Those are good questions.....

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I just had to ask, being a

I just had to ask, being a pessimist I always try to see the downside whenever my leg gets that tingling feeling! It is a Chris Mathews thing! Rolling on the floor laughing

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AstuteObserver wrote: Is

AstuteObserver wrote:
Is there a downside to this new approach to geothermal energy? Perhaps an eventual cooling of the earth core or man induced fracturing of the crust that would potentially result in seismic activity? Just wondering if potential side effects have been considered? Like anything man does there are trade offs in the cause-effect relationship. Eye-wink

Of course there are downsides - it is us trying to eek out every last bit of resource we can to feed our unnaturally-high consumption of energy. Solar and wind, baby - the way we should sustain ourselves.
Think about it - to the best of our knowledge, the petroleum and coal we use now is just a concentrated form of solar energy that has been stored up in fossilised algae and plant matter. Our processing merely releases the energy from its fossilised form. The energy we have burned through amounts to the accumulated solar gain over the course of millenia and we can use it as fast as we can mine it out. It's like we are enjoying the days of sunlight past in addition to sunlight present. When this resource diminishes, so too does our capacity to live beyond present solar gain. I know population is an issue to which you are sensitive, so think about how much more life has been supported on the planet simply because there is virtually more solar energy now than is naturally occurring. This affects everything about human sustainability: Food production/distribution, electricity, commerce, diplomacy, warfare, there isn't anything that this energy issue doesn't touch.
Many who oppose solar and wind (heavily dependent on the sun as well) energy believe, rightfully, that they will not meet current demands for energy and that is the whole point: We use energy beyond the capacity of anything in our solar system to produce sustainably. The battery is running low and it's not rechargeable - not in our geological age, anyway. My push for a reduction in our consumption is merely borne of a (rational) appreciation of energy and where it comes from in this solar system - the sun. We might as well get used to a life on low energy, because it is inevitable.

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Storage is the operative

Storage is the operative word in all this.
Now as far as operating on low energy I believe Congress has that in effect currently! Eye-wink

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AstuteObserver

AstuteObserver wrote:
Storage is the operative word in all this.
Now as far as operating on low energy I believe Congress has that in effect currently! Eye-wink

I disagree - those people are fat on excess energy in the form of dollars.

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Now Fremen they can't get

Now Fremen they can't get fat on diluted dollars that hold no economic calories!

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AstuteObserver wrote: Now

AstuteObserver wrote:
Now Fremen they can't get fat on diluted dollars that hold no economic calories!

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Renewable sources of energy

Renewable sources of energy is the future and we should pay more attention to them. Smiling

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There is only one renewable

There is only one renewable source of energy on this planet and that is its sun. If it's electricity you want, winds can be harvested as well with little impact, but if the plants that manufacture the solar and wind machinery are powered by fossil fuels, the gains are negligible. I know there is a plant in Georgia that runs its solar manufacturing on solar power, so that's the model that we need to follow. If it can't be done that way, then it isn't actually renewable.

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Technically, The sun isn't

Technically, The sun isn't renewable either.

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Quote: Technically, The sun

Quote:
Technically, The sun isn't renewable either.

Tough to debate that one for sure!
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Boanerges

Boanerges wrote:
Technically, The sun isn't renewable either.

Exactly. But for the purposes of our species - it's relatively renewable.

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Quote: Exactly. But for the

Quote:
Exactly. But for the purposes of our species - it's relatively renewable.

Come on Fremen then the argument that fossil fuels are renewable can be made - just given enough time they will be replaced! Even nuclear waste will be safe at some point in time! Who is to say the human species won't survive long enough to see that all happen? Do you know something you are not sharing?
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You're right, we should just

You're right, we should just keep using what we have available to us with our current level of understanding until we gain more understanding or use it all up - then on to the next thing. Cheers Mate!

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Quote: You're right, we

Quote:
You're right, we should just keep using what we have available to us with our current level of understanding until we gain more understanding or use it all up - then on to the next thing.

That pretty much sums up my position. Use what we have and continue to improve upon its efficiency, invest in alternatives that indicate serious potential. By the time the sun burns out we should be onto the next galactic haven and repeat the process all over again!
Cheers Mate!

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Technically, the sun can

Technically, the sun can help us for more than the duration of not only our lifetime, but the lifetime of your family as well.

Is there a point here? Or are you being "technical" without a point here?

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Quote: Technically, the sun

Quote:
Technically, the sun can help us for more than the duration of not only our lifetime, but the lifetime of your family as well.

Is there a point here? Or are you being "technical" without a point here?

You fail to recognize that I am a perpetual being! Always have been and always will be.
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Humor....

Humor.... Laughing out loud Rolling on the floor laughing Shocked Cheers Mate!

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Levity too!

Levity too!
Laughing out loud Shocked Rolling on the floor laughing Cheers Mate!

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Mysandrist Fool
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Quote: Humor....

Quote:
Humor....

Weak.....

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Boanerges
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Mysandrist Fool

Mysandrist Fool wrote:

Weak.....

Day.

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"There is nothing more permanent than a "temporary" government program"
"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one...."
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Month!

Month!
Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing

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Humor is also a way of

Humor is also a way of saying something serious. - T. S. Eliot

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Boanerges
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AstuteObserver

AstuteObserver wrote:
Month!

Dozen

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"There is nothing more permanent than a "temporary" government program"
"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one...."
-- James Madison, letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792

BlueT
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Re: Drill Baby Drill!

I agree. We already drill and the product would be nowhere as good as this. This is a renewable product. We just need to get the water down there.....

naturelover1
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Re: Drill Baby Drill!

It is not 'DRILL BABY DRILL', it's all about bring out the gas through EGS. It happened so casaully that I was going through news reading in daily, I came across this particular technology but it was not as descriptive as yours. So, I just gave it a thought and forgot. I think the problem lies not in the technology or cost, but how to bring out the gas. Because as you described, to evacuate the gas, some pipeline has to be laid and that pipeline should be able to withstand the high temperature which reaches more than waht you have stated. And, this is one of the prime reason for even the government to give it a shot. As human, let's wait for a day which will solve today's oil problem.

Orrymain
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Re: Drill Baby Drill!

Very interesting. It just goes to show that age is no limitation for innovation. I was very impressed for sure.

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