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The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

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Pagan
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The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

I've got to throw this in -

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Boeing Schedules First 787 Flight
By Daniel Lovering - Manufacturing | Aug 27, 09

NEW YORK (AP) -- Boeing says its 787 aircraft will be ready for its first test flight by the end of this year and its initial delivery by the end of next year, sending its shares higher as it gives some clarity to a program that has been delayed five times already.

Boeing originally scheduled the 787's first test for the fall of 2007. But production problems have forced the company to postpone trial flights for the next-generation passenger jet. The first delivery to Japan's All Nippon Airways Co.is now more than two years behind its original schedule.

After so many false starts, airline customers and Wall Street are more skeptical of Boeing's timetable for the 787, built with lightweight carbon composite parts for fuel efficiency.

With a new test date set for now, shares of Boeing rose $4.16, or 8.7 percent, to $51.98 in afternoon trading.

The plane's delays are expected to cost Boeing billions of dollars in penalties and expenses, and they've hurt the Chicago-based company's credibility.

Boeing came under sharp questioning in a conference call Thursday after the announcement. One analyst, Howard Rubel of Jefferies & Co., asked why the company's latest schedule is "any better" than ones issued previously.

Boeing said it will book a pretax charge of $2.5 billion, or $2.21 per share, in the third quarter, including a write-off for the first three test planes, which customers would normally take, but don't want in this case.

With the 787, the company has adopted a new approach to building airplanes, relying on overseas suppliers to build huge sections of the plane that are later assembled at the company's commercial aircraft plant near Seattle.

But ill-fitting parts and other problems have hampered production. The latest delay came in June, when the company said it needed to reinforce areas close to where the wings and fuselage join.

Still, the jet remains Boeing's best-selling new plane and a priority as it struggles with sharply lower orders caused by weak demand for air travel. Boeing currently has 850 orders for the 787. Seventy-three orders have been canceled so far this year.

The company and some analysts say the 787 -- Boeing's first all-new jetliner since the 777 -- eventually will prove a financial and technological success.

"I am confident the team can address the remaining development challenges," Pat Shanahan, general manager of airplane programs for Boeing's commercial division, said during Thursday's conference call.

But not everyone is convinced. Troy Lahr, an analyst at Stifel Nicolaus & Co., said the new schedule is "achievable," but that the program has lost credibility.

"We're not holding our breath," he said.

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The Obsession of Cheap and not caring about quality is amongst other things is destroying our Country.  Boeing is building shit in places like China that uses Slave Labor from the Laogai (Chinese Concentration Camps) and they're suprised that they're having issues with quality?  Jerk Off

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

Didn't Obama say something about being against outsourcing!? Phht, outsourced people in other countries like China have proven themselves as being fucking incapable of following the most -basic- of manufacturing safety rules, like be adding lead paint to things when it's been said only fifteen trillion times that lead is poisonous!

I should propose a law that says that you cannot outsource to cheap companies if a shoddy part can put someone's life at risk. Which covers quite literally everything.

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

I'm sorry, but no one is forced into lowering standards.  Internalising profit while externalising costs will always end poorly.  It's everything that is wrong with our culture.  I'm not speaking as a consumer now - I just think of long-held traditions and the deadly stress-inducing efforts that engineers and designers and project managers and skilled laborers go through just to roll out a pile of shit.  Great.  That's progress.

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

The sad part of the story is that we can't produce jack shit entirely in this country anymore!  Global commitments from both industry and government force us to out source work.  First because of the industrial chemicals used are more often than not permitted in this country.  So we let some other country take on the task of production.

What a world of hypocrisy we live in - I for one simply don't give a flying fuck anymore and just concern myself with myself.

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

China flush with lots of profiets from ignorant U.S. consumers and corporations have been buying up resources around the globe.  Fact is as of a couple of years ago they cornered the market on Rare Earth Minerals, you know the ones that make all of our military and consumer gadgets work?

We've been fucked for a long time and China is the next world superpower, gotta luv free trade.  Frustrated

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

When I first learned of their great new outsourced plane, I thought it was shit.  I think it is my satisfaction knowing of all the delays.  Now with the new potential factory in WV (I think?), yeah, it will hurt the PNW, but at least it is in the USA.

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

solje wrote:

When I first learned of their great new outsourced plane, I thought it was shit.  I think it is my satisfaction knowing of all the delays.  Now with the new potential factory in WV (I think?), yeah, it will hurt the PNW, but at least it is in the USA.

Boeing has been on a slow pull out of the NW for a while now, the Politicians are just too greedy.  I'm still very concerned with it only being "assembled" here and bean counters just don't have a clue when they preach the Outsource gospel.

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

Pagan wrote:

solje wrote:

When I first learned of their great new outsourced plane, I thought it was shit.  I think it is my satisfaction knowing of all the delays.  Now with the new potential factory in WV (I think?), yeah, it will hurt the PNW, but at least it is in the USA.

Boeing has been on a slow pull out of the NW for a while now, the Politicians are just too greedy.  I'm still very concerned with it only being "assembled" here and bean counters just don't have a clue when they preach the Outsource gospel.

Washington state screwed the pooch when they failed to retract their B&O tax.  Boeing had no chopice but to relocate and shift resources out of Seattle area.  So much for the B&O tax.  I am aware of several other businesses that relocated out of state just becasue of the B&O taxation.  Pretty fucking short sited of the Washington state IMO.  But hey when you live in a state that is so fucking liberal and they tax you for everything but taking a shit in the morning to support all their entitelment programs what do you expect!

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

now with Carson "retiring" at the end of the year from the commercial division, I wonder what is going to happen next?  Full on move to South Carolina? 

You're right AO... and the lefties continue to ruin it with the special interests.

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

solje wrote:

now with Carson "retiring" at the end of the year from the commercial division, I wonder what is going to happen next?  Full on move to South Carolina? 

You're right AO... and the lefties continue to ruin it with the special interests.

Boeing will continue to build in the Seattle area but all sales will be made through their new location which has in effect side -stepped the B&O taxation.  You can count on a continued decline however of Boeing activities as their plants/facilities begin to age and require rebuilding - there are far more friendlier states to do business in than Washington.

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

That's fine with me - I don't need the big 'Nuke Here' target hanging around my neck anymore.  

Seriously, if businesses continue to suffer under her tyrannical yoke, Olympia will get the picture and make some changes - look at Sacramento.  Maybe not...

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Fremen wrote:

That's fine with me - I don't need the big 'Nuke Here' target hanging around my neck anymore.  

Seriously, if businesses continue to suffer under her tyrannical yoke, Olympia will get the picture and make some changes - look at Sacramento.  Maybe not...

Boeing isn't the only nuke target you have to be concerned about - have you noticed there is a sub base just miles out of town, then of course there is McCord and Ft. Lewis, ship yard in Bremerton - need I continue?

I am so glad I left Washington years ago, all the leftist bullshit and business killing taxation was too much to endure.

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Re: The "Obsession" of Outsourcing

Did you have a business in Washington?

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Fremen wrote:

Did you have a business in Washington?

Yes I certainly did.  I found the B&O tax offensive and a hinderance to competition.  The problem is that the B&O tax is based on GROSS revenues.  The state extracted their "pound of flesh" before cost of production or any other operational expenses were factored in.  Even a company failing to show a profit stream (not atypical of many young companies) had to remit funds to the state for the pleasure of doing business in the state.

I witness numerous businesses relocating out of state once Boeing lost their appeal to the Supreme Court over this issue.  Oregon was one of the recipients who enjoyed an increase in commerce activity as a result.  Nevada also was a state where some of the firms I was familiar with relocated corporte offices so as to legally avoid this absurd tax.  Washington and its citizens are the losers in this action.  Fewer jobs were available as a result.  All businesses pay this tax by the way not just manufacturing.

The retail segment also got hit hard by this tax since they had to calculate their B&O tax based on year end inventories within the state.  Nordstrom is one example where they moved all warehousing and distribution to CA.  Many others closed local wharehouses and relocated them in Oregon and actually began trucking goods into Washington an a real time on-demand basis to avoid this taxation.  It was and still is a punitive tax IMO.

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I've been contemplating starting a business - going to look into the issues of WA state.  My woman is a bookkeeper and she insists B&O taxes apply to money made off of Washington residents only, so I wonder how that applies to Boeing - if they have specific taxes that apply to them?

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Fremen wrote:

I've been contemplating starting a business - going to look into the issues of WA state.  My woman is a bookkeeper and she insists B&O taxes apply to money made off of Washington residents only, so I wonder how that applies to Boeing - if they have specific taxes that apply to them?

Unless they have changed the B&O tax it is not calculated on revenues generated solely from Washington residents.  Just how many Washington residents have purchased a new plane from Boeing? 

try this URL for some clarification.   http://dor.wa.gov/Content/FindTaxesAndRates/BAndOTax/Default.aspx

As far as I can tell the B&O tax remains a tax calculated on the value of products, gross proceeds of sale, or gross income of the business.

You may want to consider incorporating in Nevada as you can effectively avoid this taxation if you do.

I think you are smart to look into starting your own business - it is a lot of work and takes dedication but if you are good about getting up and going to work on your own you have half the battle won.  I was always the happiest working for myself instead of for some asshole who didn't care as long as I produced profits for them.

So what is the nature of the business you are contemplating?

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