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Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

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Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Walgreens: no new Medicaid patients as of April 16
Walgreens will stop taking new Medicaid patients in Washington state as of April 16, saying it loses money filling their prescriptions.
By Janet I. Tu - Seattle Times | Mar 17, 10

Government Health CareEffective April 16, Walgreens drugstores across the state won't take any new Medicaid patients, saying that filling their prescriptions is a money-losing proposition — the latest development in an ongoing dispute over Medicaid reimbursement.

The company, which operates 121 stores in the state, will continue filling Medicaid prescriptions for current patients.

In a news release, Walgreens said its decision to not take new Medicaid patients stemmed from a "continued reduction in reimbursement" under the state's Medicaid program, which reimburses it at less than the break-even point for 95 percent of brand-name medications dispensed to Medicaid patents.

Walgreens follows Bartell Drugs, which stopped taking new Medicaid patients last month at all 57 of its stores in Washington, though it still fills Medicaid prescriptions for existing customers at all but 15 of those stores.

Doug Porter, the state's director of Medicaid, said Medicaid recipients should be able to readily find another pharmacy because "we have many more pharmacy providers in our network than we need" for the state's 1 million Medicaid clients.

He said those who can't can contact the state's Medical Assistance Customer Service Center at 1-800-562-3022 for help in locating one.

Along with Walgreens and Bartell, the Ritzville Drug Company in Adams County announced in November that it would stop participating in Medicaid.

Fred Meyer and Safeway said their pharmacies would continue to serve existing Medicaid patients and to take new ones, though both expressed concern that the reimbursement rate is too low for pharmacies to make a profit.

The amount private insurers and Medicaid pay pharmacies for prescriptions isn't the actual cost of those drugs but rather is based on what's called the drug's estimated average wholesale price. But that figure is more like the sticker price on a car than its actual wholesale cost.

Washington was reimbursing pharmacies 86 percent of a drug's average wholesale price until July, when it began paying them just 84 percent. While pharmacies weren't happy about the reimbursement reduction, the Department of Social and Health Services said that move was expected to save the state about $10 million.

Then in September came another blow. The average wholesale price is calculated by a private company, which was accused in a Massachusetts lawsuit of fraudulently inflating its figures. The company did not admit wrongdoing but agreed in a court settlement to ratchet its figures down by about 4 percent.

That agreement took effect in September — and prompted a lawsuit by a group of pharmacies and trade associations that said Washington state didn't follow federal law in setting its reimbursement rate, and that that rate is too low. The lawsuit is pending.

"Washington state Medicaid is now reimbursing pharmacies less than their cost of participation," said Jeff Rochon, CEO of the Washington State Pharmacy Association.

Pharmacies that continue to fill Medicaid prescriptions at the current state reimbursement rate are "at risk of putting themselves out of business altogether," he said.

***************************************************************************************************************************

Yep, government run healthcare is so efficient isn't it?  Jerk Off

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

This is a good thing the government has done and shows just how cutthroat Walmart is and has been. We ALL know the inflated nature of drug pricing. We ALL know of Walmart's low generic drug pricing ads. Cutting the cost from 86 to 84% of "wholesale" is exactly what the system needs, along with forcing other nations in this global economy to start picking up the price of research that is often claimed and used as an excuse. I will CONTINUE to believe this UNTIL this magical pricing scheme is exposed for what it is and big pharma actually opens up their books. For the reality is that they are still making lots of money. Now that Walmart is getting larger, they are starting to use their clout.

 

OPEN up the books of big pharma. NOW!

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Walmart is just the tip of the proverbial ice berg.  Whne reimbursements are lower than the cost of providing the good/service the providers of those services will cease to exist.  Basically given the proposed health care reform we may expand coverage to 20-30 million but there will be nobody to provide services at that rate.  We need REFORM not a bill of entitlements and financial obligation.

Oh what the fuck  we are simply screwed regardless.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

For the record this is Walgreens, not Wall-Mart, Walgreen's is a Pharmacy chain  Eye-wink

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Since the article mentions that it's the name brands that are at issue I don't see where Wal Mart has anything to do with it.

 

Paying a provider less than it costs them to provide their goods or service can't be a good idea. Only so much loss can be tolerated before they go out of business or refuse to service the accounts. To draw a paralle ll , when the government starts contolling all health care how long until doctors stop providing the government patients with care? Actually that happens now. More and more doctors are refusing to take medicare patients because of the same. They don't make enough to cover thier costs. Only a certain amount of these freebie cases can be taken before they have to pass along the costs or drop the patients.

This is a perfect case where the government can't just decide what should be paid. Market forces have to be considered.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

My bad on the name, but the point remains to be the same. Have big pharma open up their books and prove to me that they are losing money, instead of losing obscene profits. That is what has led to this mess.

 

AO, you disappoint me when you state: "Whne reimbursements are lower than the cost of providing the good/service the providers of those services will cease to exist."

 

You make the assumption that is the case here. Where's the proof?

 

I still say open the books. I still maintain that this is a GLOBAL economy. Let other countries pay for the development of new drugs such as we have been doing for years. This is nothing more than a shakedown to avoid responsibility and bullshit political posturing. If not, show me how much money they are "losing". These companies have repeatedly been the problem and continue to be so. That being said, it is not the only issue, but that doesn't mean that is does not happen either.

 

I still smell a dirty, dirty rat here.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

No one has stated that Big Pharma is losing money. They make healthy profits. A quick check of Yahoo Financial reveals that Pfizer pulled in about 8 billion annually the past few years and Merck 3, 4 and 8 billion respectively. I fail to see what difference it makes though.

As far as the global drivel, other places can only afford to pay so much. We live in a rich nation so therefore we pay more.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

We live in a rich nation? I disagree. You're one (and so am I) who complain about the deficits. That does play into his, does it not? The problem is that these companies contributed to this problem, much like lending institutions contributed towards the housing collapse. Wasn't that also a pay for profits endeavor that was controlled?

 

Now, they expect to be rewarded, just like those who receive those obscene bailouts for their failing performance with bailout monies. I don't wish to see that repeated ever again. Do you?

 

It is now a global economy moreso than ever. If people in other countries wish to buy these drugs, I would suggest they pay for the research, just like we do. Or, would you prefer that we consider to subsidize them as well?

 

Funny words coming out of your mouth, boan. You, of all people....... Shocked

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Why would you disagree with the fact that we live in a rich nation? The fact that the government spends more than it's annual revenues (deficit) doesn't make us a poor nation. Our economy is much bigger than just the government. That being said the national debt ballooning since the 1950s and especially recently may work to crush our economy but it hasn't happened yet.

 

I don't see where these companies (Big Pharmaceutical companies or the pharmacy chains) have contributed to the problem. If we (as a country) want our drugs to be clinical tested over and over and over before it's allowed to market and we are going to regulate the testing to the point that it HAS to be done overseas. In addition all drugs are regulated and HAVE to be sold by a trained professional that must be paid higher wages. All of these things combined are expensive. Not to mention the chemists to develop the drugs to start with. This is NOTHING like the mortgage companies getting a bailout. It's innovation. It's legitimate companies that receive a return on their investments, as they should.

 

 

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Riiiight....

Even "accepting" that argument doesn't even come close to the fact that we still subsidize other country's drugs with our research costs that we pay. If what you state is true, open up the books and see why these companies aren't suffering. Words for words sake and saying what you say doesn't do that.

 

If it is a global economy, this is one area where we could act like it. And creating these drugs, selling them when something better is available, then waiting until the generic pricing kicks in until they introduce the "new and improved" product is not what I would refer to as "legitimate".

 

Go cry on somebody else's shoulder, boan. I'm not hearing it.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Basically Walgreens is saying that their cost for the product exceeds the level of Medicaid reimbursement so they can no longer justify servicing that market.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with that position.

 

How long would you work at a loss before just staying home in the morning and humping the cat?

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

C'mon AO. Some believe that companies should pay their customers to take their product until they go broke. Then other companies will be standing in line to pay people to take their stuff too. Isn't that how it works?

This country was built on private enterprises. Good for them to tell the government to pack sand. Hopefully more will follow their lead.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Then, they should have no problems in opening their books in order to "prove" this, shouldn't they?

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Why should they have to "prove" anything? Even if they make a fortune off medicaid patrons, if they choose not to serve them they can. Tough shit big GOVCO.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Mysandrist Fool wrote:

Then, they should have no problems in opening their books in order to "prove" this, shouldn't they?

It's called right to privacy, read the 4th and 5th Amendment Eye-wink

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Then, they should stop their whining. Either they back it up, or not.

Why should they have to "prove" anything?

Uhhh, because they are the ones whining about it.... Back it up, or shut the fuck up. That's what I say. I simply don't believe them, or anyone else in bug pharma for that matter. They are the ones that have led to this mess of a health are system we we right now. And they continue to rake in the profits while stating just the opposite. I see no evidence of their profits being marginalized here.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Mysandrist Fool wrote:

Then, they should stop their whining. Either they back it up, or not.

Why should they have to "prove" anything?

Uhhh, because they are the ones whining about it.... Back it up, or shut the fuck up. That's what I say. I simply don't believe them, or anyone else in bug pharma for that matter. They are the ones that have led to this mess of a health are system we we right now. And they continue to rake in the profits while stating just the opposite. I see no evidence of their profits being marginalized here.

No whining, they just made a business decision based on they're loosing way too much money from it.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

So, here's what this article states:

The amount private insurers and Medicaid pay pharmacies for prescriptions
isn't the actual cost of those drugs but rather is based on what's
called the drug's estimated average wholesale price. But that figure is
more like the sticker price on a car than its actual wholesale cost.

Washington
was reimbursing pharmacies 86 percent of a drug's average wholesale
price until July, when it began paying them just 84 percent. While
pharmacies weren't happy about the reimbursement reduction, the
Department of Social and Health Services said that move was expected to
save the state about $10 million.

Then
in September came another blow. The average wholesale price is
calculated by a private company, which was accused in a Massachusetts
lawsuit of fraudulently inflating its figures. The company did not
admit wrongdoing but agreed in a court settlement to ratchet its
figures down by about 4 percent.

 

Which side of this fence do my statements support? This pretty much backs up what I am alleging here.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients


Okay MF here is the first issue I have - based on your last post - "based on what's called the drug's estimated average wholesale price". 

Give me a fucking break - remember when WA state was taxing car plates based on some fucking valutaion that had no correlation with anything in the real world?  Remember that the people finally had enough and they passed the prop to end that screw job.  Well much the same is acocomplished here.  Government pases a lax, tax. fee, based on some damn arbitrary figure they (GOVCO) constructed.  See the problem here and the conflict that arises with free markets and capitalism.  GOVCO says this and then hands off the cost to private sector players.  It simpy doesn't work in reality.

Walgreen, Walmart, Costco, whoever has the right to say they will not accept payment (reimbursements) from sources when the conversion results in a net loss.  That is business, capitalism, free markets and the best form of capital exchange in recorded history.  Anything other is either socialism or communism IMO.

We just got screwed by Obama and his troup of ideologs, no reach around, no kiss while being fucked, nothing but sand pounded up our collective asses!

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

I'm willing to give this one a pass until I see those figures. Unregulated health care and banking practices also lead to this mess, and Obama had nothing to do with those, did he?

 

I dislike him as much as possible, but when I see rants like that that have nothing to do with THIS topic, I will call this bullshit every time, bud!

 

BTW, government hasn't imposed anything here taxwise. In fact, they stopped paying too much for what is being charged too much for. That's what they used to do, and I'm all for that type of government.

 

But hey! Even this administration is bound to get something right sometime. It's called the laws of average.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Go figure even law of averages gives this admin a level playing field!  Statistical analysis is another form of smoke and mirrors or simply a Parlor trick when needed to be played.  That my friend comes from a solid understanding of mathematics and their application potential!  Go figure!

Rolling on the floor laughing

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Here's my bottom line....

Then in September came another blow. The average wholesale price is calculated by a private company, which was accused in a Massachusetts lawsuit of fraudulently inflating its figures. The company did not admit wrongdoing but agreed in a court settlement to ratchet its figures down by about 4 percent.

Now, I suppose you'll blame that on the gub'mint too, eh? My Lips are Sealed

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

So give us the numbers and lets compute the tally for correctness and honesty!  Ain't never going to happen!

Actually I would have to say that in this particular quote I can identify an area where political/judicial coercion may have influenced the numbers being considered - excuse me in this case reconsidered for those reasons.

Rolling on the floor laughing

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Mysandrist Fool wrote:

Here's my bottom line....

Then in September came another blow. The average wholesale price is calculated by a private company, which was accused in a Massachusetts lawsuit of fraudulently inflating its figures. The company did not admit wrongdoing but agreed in a court settlement to ratchet its figures down by about 4 percent.

Now, I suppose you'll blame that on the gub'mint too, eh? My Lips are Sealed

I failed to point out the operative word here is "accused" - mind you nothing is proven, just accused or implied.  Language like mathematics can easily be employed to present what in appearance is a valid argument or truth. Then we should consider what is 4%?  lets see if used in debate at the appropriate time it may be factual and have emotional and scientific impact - but then if that 4% is only from a huge pool it really diminished that value in reality.  4% of 10 is huge almost half but 4% of a trillion ain't shit even in today's world of mega spending.  I think you get my drift.

 

Bottom line is I want less Govmint involvement and control over my life.  I can do a better job of making it than they can if they just get the fuck out of the way!  Bottom line!

Now where did I place that bowl?

Rolling on the floor laughing

 

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

How about bought out? Simply buying out this "accusation", yet going along with those "terms", strongly suggests otherwise. Apparently, the money gained from such a transaction was well worth their while! I'll bet those court dockets are now sealed.

 

$5???

 

Pass that bowl!

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Mysandrist Fool wrote:

Here's my bottom line....

Then in September came another blow. The average wholesale price is calculated by a private company, which was accused in a Massachusetts lawsuit of fraudulently inflating its figures. The company did not admit wrongdoing but agreed in a court settlement to ratchet its figures down by about 4 percent.

Now, I suppose you'll blame that on the gub'mint too, eh? My Lips are Sealed

 

It's actually not relevant to the issue at hand. Which is Wal-Green's isn't making a profit with the amount of money they are getting from the government. They could care less HOW the goernment decides to pay them. The government could pull a figure out of a blue unicorn's ass and as long as they make a profit, they would not care. Government is choosing to pay a substandard price for these drugs. If it's because of a flawed formula or ignorance, it makes no difference to the people (Pharmacies) that are getting screwed in the deal.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Prove to me that they aren't making a profit. I don't buy it. Don't be a circle-jerk here, just prove it. Twilight Zone More Cowbell

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

If Walgreen was making a profit handling these prescriptions they would certainly continue to do so  - they are about profit.  When GOVECO sets the rate at which you will be paid for services/products rendered regardless of actual cost of doing so how long will we have private enterprise?  I certainly believe in free markets and this is a prime example of where GOVECO is trying to turn this into a system of single power control - WARNING WILL ROGERS!

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Uhhhhh, they can afford to posture regarding this. I'm crying REAL BIG crocodile tears for them right now..... Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

I take no issue with profiting from capital investment.  I do take issue with unreasonable or excessive profits when attained through unscrupulous means.  Walgreens is is decent company that provides a standard of operation and product quality I am comfortable with.  but then I am not on Medicaid!  I think WalMart still accepts Medicaid reimbursements.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Agreed. I simply want them to state what there "losses" are. Me thinks they are lost profit margins and not actual loss in money, as they infer here. They are big enough to do this. Bartell's, on the other hand is not. If big pharma is dumping their "losses" on smaller guys than they are, shame on them. The pricing formulas should go against big pharma, and not Walgreen's or Bartells. That is where I have a problem with this, if this indeed is true.

 

I'm actually surprised that nobody has brought up the possibility of this fine print here.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

What you are missing is lost profits, lost profit margins, what is the difference?

These pharmacies have stated they are not willing to do business at the 84% rate. With the passage of the healthcare bill their costs are just going to rise. By the time it makes it through the courts the rate will be even higher.

One could wonder why government doesn't just fill the precriptions themselves. They don't because it would be too expensive. Instead of being that expense they push their obligations on private business. When they ask for adequate compensation, the government balks. So it is the perogative of the private company not to service this customer. It would nice if all companies quit taking medicaid and we could rid ourselves of this program altogether.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

They knew what they were getting into when they signed up for these programs. And drugs are not the sole point of "profit" within these companies. BFD. Their margins have been cut. It's about fucking time they joined the club and start living in the real world. These fantasy pricing schemes are over. Done. Kaput.

 

Like I said. It's about fucking time. But, they should nail big pharma, whose lobbyist protection is still enjoyed. Instead, they pick on Walgreen's.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Mysandrist Fool wrote:

They knew what they were getting into when they signed up for these programs. And drugs are not the sole point of "profit" within these companies. BFD. Their margins have been cut. It's about fucking time they joined the club and start living in the real world. These fantasy pricing schemes are over. Done. Kaput.

Like I said. It's about fucking time. But, they should nail big pharma, whose lobbyist protection is still enjoyed. Instead, they pick on Walgreen's.

Yes, live in the real world.  It takes money to research, develop and create, resources just don't "automagically" appear out of thin air.  So Walgreens made a decision not to service Medicare, well those on Medicare can go a Pharmacy that does service them.

Bottom line is they are a private business, so are the drug companies. 

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Then use the global economy as its been explained and rammed down our throats to pay for it.

 

Is that too much of a fantasy? I will still maintain that the pricing structure is pure fantasy and has nothing to do with supply and demand that most business's deal with. Do Americans pay for research for cars and toys all over the world??

 

Hell no.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Mysandrist Fool wrote:

Then use the global economy as its been explained and rammed down our throats to pay for it.

Is that too much of a fantasy? I will still maintain that the pricing structure is pure fantasy and has nothing to do with supply and demand that most business's deal with. Do Americans pay for research for cars and toys all over the world??

Hell no.

You don't think they don't already use the "global economy"? Puzzled

There are other Pharmacy's that service Medicare, let them do it, no ones telling them they can't Slap

If you believe the pricing is what you call "pure fantasy" then don't you think someone could make a mint selling it cheaper?  You know China sure is taking over the glove by making shit cheap.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

So government takes a price for a drug from an ambigous source, makes up a percentage they should pay less than that price and the pharmacies/drug companies are the ones with a fantasy pricing scheme. Jerk Off

 

Glad we cleared that up.

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Uhhhhh,...... WHO pays for the research costs? Jamiaca? China? Argentina? Canada? Mexico?

 

Nope. The USA. We need to stop that and stop that right now. THAT's why MANY go to Canada and Mexico for the very same drugs that big pharma claims that are not regulated. Additionally, I'd also like to submit, that most drugs dumped on the market do not have the level of regulation that they've had in the past, making guinea pigs out of John Q. Public. It's pure fantasy. If this were actually done CORRECTLY, these drugs would be DISTRIBUTED at the lower medicaid costs, thus alleviating the likes of Walgreens and Bartells from have to piss and moan about their lost "profits".

 

Also, they would open up their books in good faith to prove this. Simply crying about lost profits does not equate to REAL losses. Just lost profits. Well, guess what?? Everyone is losing money these days. And you don't see Mom and Pop crying to the public over their lost profits, do you? Also, I see that my comments about cars and toys above went COMPLTELY unnoticed. Too many neutrons required for that thought. C'mon, people. The medical industry and big pharma has already priced itself out of the 46 Million worth of the market, and many of the solutions allow it to continue to do so, your above thoughts included. Now, seeing that this is admittedly health care, and more than just your stoopid supply and demand in a noncompetitive market, one would think the history of what has happened would wake a few up.

 

Instead, you want to pay them off, which is not much different from boan thinking that the big mortgage managers should continue to award themselves for their failures over the past two decades with taxpayer money. The government got this one right, the lawsuit caught them at fraud, and the only shame here is that they could buy themselves out here, thus keeping them from legally dealing with price fixing, something in which YOU think has nothing to do with fantasy??? Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing

 

Thanks guys. I needed that! Laughing out loud Laughing out loud Laughing out loud Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

So am I understanding that you what the government in charge of all drug distribution? Eliminate pharmacies altogether? No thanks.

Lost profits aren't real losses? WTF? So if you were making 100 last week and you only get 80 this week for the same work you wouldn't complain or consider it a loss? It is.

and FYI the Mom and Pop's ARE complaining. National Community
Pharmacists Association
, an organization that represents independent community pharmacies across the United States has filed suit along with several other associations large and small.

You comment about cars and toys didn't go unoticed but it's just stupid. If you are going to parrell a product that we don't pay for the innovation in like medicine you should have picked products THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE INNOVATION IN. That ain't toy and it CERTAINLY ain't cars in this day and age. For the record though many innovations in automobile have in fact been paid for by Americans through the years. It's a system called NASCAR. Eye-wink

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Re: Walgreens - No New Medicaid Patients

Extremist strawman bullshit, boan. And you know it. This is what you do when I present a good argument. The healthcare and the banking industry have been out of control for ages now and its severe affect upon this country is profound. It's real simple. Have them open up their books, determine losses/gains, AS THEY CLAIM, then regulate accordingly based upon real formulas that work. Not some bullshit company that gets slapped for playing around, but doesn't have to admit guilt. Where's the personal responsibility in that?

 

As for cars, toys, anything, the research cost is figured in, and not allowed as an extra cost as the government has allowed them to do for years. CORRECT it. That's simple and effective.

 

You blow my mind, boan. For if you had one tenth of the defense for the common man as you have for your beloved companies who screw up left and right at your expense, we might be able to get past your extremist bullshit. But, no. You're more than willing to let the mortgage failures happen all over again and even stand up for the numbnuts that take that bailout money and pay themselves for their own mistakes at your expense as well. The drug companies and the medical industry is also pricing itself out of the market. Are you now suggesting that we should let it fail because no one can no longer afford it? 46 million. What's the number that would change your mind????

Tell me, boan, where's the logic and personal responsibility in that? Until you start answering the hard questions and approach this problem on a level playing field, I really choose not to waste my time on this rednecked, bullshit logic.

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